The Invisibles

[Brian Walsh]

I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism of The
Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it, and find myself
kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems that all of the themes
The Matrix were done, and much better, in The Invisibles. I'd also heard a
rumor that The Invisibles was used on set as a reference during filming.
Anyone else heard anything of this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here
or did the Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

[jonkalak]

Brian Walsh wrote:
|| I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism
|| of The Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it,
|| and find myself kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems
|| that all of the themes The Matrix were done, and much better, in The
|| Invisibles. I'd also heard a rumor that The Invisibles was used on
|| set as a reference during filming. Anyone else heard anything of
|| this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here or did the
|| Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

I did not read the book you're talking about but it seems to me that you
could say that for every sci-fi movie. The brothers always said the were
influenced by a lot of books/movies/religion...

For Matrix you could name a lot:
-Dark City
-T1/T2/T3
-Phillip K Dick (Ubik for example)
-Metropolis
and tons of them

My point is all the movies/books are the sum of a lot of influences the
authors got during their lives. Knowing that you can always find a book or a
movie that looks like it was copied. And that is even more true in sci-fi
were everything had to be invented. Where you see plagiarism some see
influence. It's only a matter of perpective.

Jon

[Johan]

Post by jonkalak
|| I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism
|| of The Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it,
|| and find myself kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems
|| that all of the themes The Matrix were done, and much better, in The
|| Invisibles. I'd also heard a rumor that The Invisibles was used on
|| set as a reference during filming. Anyone else heard anything of

I heard this as well, as did Grant Morrison.

Check out this interview...

http://www.barbelith.com/interviews/interview_1.shtml

If you can get hold of it, buy Anarchy For The Masses... It's a definitive
guide to The Invisibles and has a great interview with Grant where he talks
about the Matrix.

"Take for instance the minor controversy involving Morrison and the creators
of The Matrix. Fanboys on both sides accused each other of idea theft.
Morrison explains in Anarchy for the Masses that seeing The Matrix, on acid
as he casually notes, that he was initially enraged at how much of his work
was lifted. But then he remembered that his whole intent with The Invisibles
was to create a spell that invaded the whole of human culture and hence
create things like The Matrix."

Post by jonkalak
|| this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here or did the
|| Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

Uh-huh.

Post by jonkalak
I did not read the book you're talking about but it seems to me that you
could say that for every sci-fi movie.

Get thee to a comic shop now and buy all the Invisibles graphic novels. They
are blinkin' AMAZING!!!!!

The brothers always said the were

Post by jonkalak
influenced by a lot of books/movies/religion...
-Dark City
-T1/T2/T3
-Phillip K Dick (Ubik for example)
-Metropolis
and tons of them

True... but The Invisibles is definately one of the biggest.
But then again they do say intellect borrows, genius steals.

Johan

'Our sentence is up...'

[telmaHmAI]

Post by Brian Walsh
I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism of The
Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it, and find myself
kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems that all of the themes
The Matrix were done, and much better, in The Invisibles. I'd also heard a
rumor that The Invisibles was used on set as a reference during filming.
Anyone else heard anything of this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here
or did the Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

Ya know how many original works Shakespeare did? 1. The Tempest. All the
other plays he wrote were his takes on material already devised. And guess
what? HIS ARE BETTER!!

As I've said before and millions have said before me....the Greeks had all
the interactions of humans to humans, to God, to environment, to
machine...etc...all worked out about 3500 years ago. Everthing you've EVER
read was cribbed from some one else....who cribbed it from someone else. Get
over it.

But it doesn't mean that someones crib....might not be better....or give a
modern interpretation on....something that has already been done to
death....


Nail

"my life style detremines my death style"

[Patrick MM]

Post by Brian Walsh
I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism of The
Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it, and find myself
kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems that all of the themes
The Matrix were done, and much better, in The Invisibles. I'd also heard a
rumor that The Invisibles was used on set as a reference during filming.
Anyone else heard anything of this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here
or did the Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

Certain elements seem explicitly taken from The Invisibles, like jumping off
the building to open your eyes, the look of the characters, and the
architect is virtually the same character as someone in The Invisibles.
According to Morrison, The Invisibles was on the set of the first Matrix,
and I think it was confirmed somewhere that the Wachowskis read it. That
said, while I enjoy The Matrix, The Invisibles is probably the best piece of
fiction I've ever experienced, if you like The Matrix, buy it. It's on a
whole other level than The Matrix, in that it interacts much more with the
real world, whereas The Matrix is purely contained in the film.

Patrick

[darklok1]

Post by Brian Walsh
I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism of The
Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it, and find myself
kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems that all of the themes
The Matrix were done, and much better, in The Invisibles. I'd also heard a
rumor that The Invisibles was used on set as a reference during filming.
Anyone else heard anything of this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here
or did the Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

I would like to add another log to the fire. I just watched
Revolutions and I could swear that the last act of the movie between
Neo and Smith was a re-enactment of the final duel between Miracleman
and Kid Miracleman in the revamped Miracleman series of the late
eighties/early nineties.

The shot of Smith framed by lightening is almost exactly the same as a
cell in the final duel issue. (I am at a loss what issue number it
was) Nonetheless, once I saw that scene, the remaining screen time
between Neo and Smith thematically tracked with this old Alan
Moore/Neil Gaiman series.

Am I crazy?

***@aol.com

[Patrick MM]

Post by darklok1
I would like to add another log to the fire. I just watched
Revolutions and I could swear that the last act of the movie between
Neo and Smith was a re-enactment of the final duel between Miracleman
and Kid Miracleman in the revamped Miracleman series of the late
eighties/early nineties.
The shot of Smith framed by lightening is almost exactly the same as a
cell in the final duel issue. (I am at a loss what issue number it
was) Nonetheless, once I saw that scene, the remaining screen time
between Neo and Smith thematically tracked with this old Alan
Moore/Neil Gaiman series.
Am I crazy?

Not at all, that's exactly what I thought when I saw that sequence. The
lightning shot was right out of issue 1 or 2, but the fight you mentioned
was in issue 15. I would be really up for a Miracleman movie after seeing
the effects in Revolutions.

Patrick

[Will Dockery]

Post by darklok1

Post by Brian Walsh
I'd heard for a while that the Matrix was a dumbed down plagiarism of The
Invisibles by Grant Morrison. I've now started reading it, and find myself
kind of disappointed with The Matrix now. It seems that all of the themes
The Matrix were done, and much better, in The Invisibles. I'd also heard a
rumor that The Invisibles was used on set as a reference during filming.
Anyone else heard anything of this? Am I just projecting my exceptions here
or did the Watchowski's (sp?) crib a lot of their material?

I would like to add another log to the fire. I just watched
Revolutions and I could swear that the last act of the movie between
Neo and Smith was a re-enactment of the final duel between Miracleman
and Kid Miracleman in the revamped Miracleman series of the late
eighties/early nineties.
The shot of Smith framed by lightening is almost exactly the same as a
cell in the final duel issue. (I am at a loss what issue number it
was) Nonetheless, once I saw that scene, the remaining screen time
between Neo and Smith thematically tracked with this old Alan
Moore/Neil Gaiman series.
Am I crazy?

Now, after all these years, you've sparked an interest in Matrix for me!

I know I sure am looking forward to the return of Miracleman next year, in 2014!