Question about Matrix Reloaded, the Merovingian and the story itself.

[Paul]

I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.

When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's to
kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is speaking to
the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these scenes have
played themselves out over and over again in the past. That is why the
Merovingian said in his house " your predecessors had much more respect".
He also says after Neo defeats all of his bodyguards "Mark my words, boy,
and mark them well. I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive
you!"

1st, if this has taken place over and over again in the past, how is it
possible that anyone including Neo is alive? Lets take for instance the 1st
time this whole "dreamworld" or "matrix" took place. Neo would have been
working at the computer company, he would have been contacted by Trinity and
Morpheus etc and all of this stuff would have taken place yet in the end Neo
obviously dies. When you die in the Matrix, you die in the "real world".
His body would have been flushed from the pod that held him "in the real
world" and his body would have been decomposed in the liquid and that would
have been the end of Neo. The machine world is the "real world" and not the
Matrix so how could the machines "recreate" Neo and everyone else? I
thought that could only happen inside "the matrix"?

So, how is it that Neo and everyone else is able to be killed time after
time after time and be "reborn" in the real world in a pod and then rescued
by Morpheus etc? Is anyone following what I am saying or getting at? I
know it can be confusing but if you are in this newsgroup you obviously have
some understanding of how the Matrix works and the difference between the
Matrix and the real World.

Any observations or thoughts would be appreciated.

Paul

[JPM III]

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's
to kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is
speaking to the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these
scenes have played themselves out over and over again in the past. That
is why the Merovingian said in his house " your predecessors had much more
respect". He also says after Neo defeats all of his bodyguards "Mark my
words, boy, and mark them well. I have survived your predecessors, and I
will survive you!"
1st, if this has taken place over and over again in the past, how is it
possible that anyone including Neo is alive? Lets take for instance the
1st time this whole "dreamworld" or "matrix" took place. Neo would have
been working at the computer company, he would have been contacted by
Trinity and Morpheus etc and all of this stuff would have taken place yet
in the end Neo obviously dies. When you die in the Matrix, you die in the
"real world". His body would have been flushed from the pod that held him
"in the real world" and his body would have been decomposed in the liquid
and that would have been the end of Neo. The machine world is the "real
world" and not the Matrix so how could the machines "recreate" Neo and
everyone else? I thought that could only happen inside "the matrix"?
So, how is it that Neo and everyone else is able to be killed time after
time after time and be "reborn" in the real world in a pod and then
rescued by Morpheus etc? Is anyone following what I am saying or getting
at? I know it can be confusing but if you are in this newsgroup you
obviously have some understanding of how the Matrix works and the
difference between the Matrix and the real World.
Any observations or thoughts would be appreciated.
Paul

The scenes we see on the Architect's screens are not scenes from the past,
but a variety of thoughts going through Neo's mind -- the Architect is
simply displaying his power to Neo. Nothing we saw in the Matrix had
happened before. Neo's predecessors were NOT Neo or necessarily anything
like him. Their only similarities are the characteristics of the One, which
is what gives Neo and his predecessors their strength within the Matrix.

The successive versions of the Matrix are different. The same people are not
reborn. Each version is different and new, but they are designed to end in
the same way -- "agents" iron out the system's kinks and eventually bringing
the anomaly to the surface, forcing the anomaly to follow the sequence of
events and eventually help reload the system -- before it crashes.

The Agents themselves are only pawns (of the Architect and the Oracle),
designed specifically to do a job that helps prevent the system from
crashing. The only flaw in the system, as Neo and the Architect discuss, is
that it relies on human intellect to function, specifically the human
anomaly's "choice". The machines can only present the options to Neo and
encourage/coerce the choice that's necessary for survival, but Neo still
must volunteer.

When the Merovingian claims that Neo's predecessors had more respect, he was
acknowledging that there was something different about Neo that set him
apart from the rest. Specifically, Neo is in love, and apparently his
predecessors weren't. Neo's love for Trinity was clouding his judgment and
preventing him from respecting the purpose of the One -- to sacrifice
himself and his city so that humanity may survive. Instead, he is willing to
throw all of that away just to be with the one he loves.

And, of course, this is only my understanding of it all. It makes perfect
sense to me, but there may be other interpretations that are just as
plausible or valid.

[Matty-o]

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's
to kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is
speaking to the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these
scenes have played themselves out over and over again in the past. That
is why the Merovingian said in his house " your predecessors had much more
respect". He also says after Neo defeats all of his bodyguards "Mark my
words, boy, and mark them well. I have survived your predecessors, and I
will survive you!"
1st, if this has taken place over and over again in the past, how is it
possible that anyone including Neo is alive? Lets take for instance the
1st time this whole "dreamworld" or "matrix" took place. Neo would have
been working at the computer company, he would have been contacted by
Trinity and Morpheus etc and all of this stuff would have taken place yet
in the end Neo obviously dies. When you die in the Matrix, you die in the
"real world". His body would have been flushed from the pod that held him
"in the real world" and his body would have been decomposed in the liquid
and that would have been the end of Neo. The machine world is the "real
world" and not the Matrix so how could the machines "recreate" Neo and
everyone else? I thought that could only happen inside "the matrix"?
So, how is it that Neo and everyone else is able to be killed time after
time after time and be "reborn" in the real world in a pod and then
rescued by Morpheus etc? Is anyone following what I am saying or getting
at? I know it can be confusing but if you are in this newsgroup you
obviously have some understanding of how the Matrix works and the
difference between the Matrix and the real World.
Any observations or thoughts would be appreciated.
Paul

The "predecessors" the Mero was talking about weren't specifically previous
Neos. They WERE, however, previous "Ones".
Neo wasn't "reborn" several times; There were several different "Ones".
This was explained by the Architect. The "One" is supposed to choose a
handful of people from the Matrix (30 or so if I remember correctly) to
re-populate Zion after the Sentinels get through hacking to death every
living man, woman and child in Zion. This had happened five other times.
Which gets me to thinking......
In the first Matrix, Morpheus talked to Neo about the previous "One" (the
man who could remake the Matrix as he saw fit-The man who "...freed the
first of us."). This got me to thinking......If Neo had done his "job",
everyone in Zion would've been killed, and Neo would've chosen ~30 people
from the Matrix to re-populate Zion, all of whom think they are the "first
to be freed". Where the hell do they think Zion came from? First of all,
there is a huge underground city built for them, complete with machinery,
ships, and weapons, built by nobody (since they were the first to be freed).
Second, there must be enormous amounts of evidence within Zion that it had
been populated for perhaps several hundred years: Evidence of foot traffic
here and there. Evidence that thousands upon thousands of people had eaten,
slept, and lived in the city for generations. Evidence that the weapons of
war within Zion had seen battle, had been repaired, and seen additional
battle. Evidence that the machinery that powers, heats, cools, purifies the
water and air, prepares food, cleans clothing, etc. had been worn out,
broken, repaired, or replaced, as if it had been used for centuries. Didn't
anybody ask any questions? C'mon.
Additionally, after the machines dispatch all the humans within Zion, what
happens to all the bodies and the damage to the dock and city? Presumably,
the machines roll in and remove bodies, while other machines move in and
repair damage in order to prepare the city for the next "reload". It seems
like a little too much trouble to go through.


Matty-o

[JPM III]

Post by Matty-o
The "predecessors" the Mero was talking about weren't specifically
previous Neos. They WERE, however, previous "Ones".
Neo wasn't "reborn" several times; There were several different "Ones".
This was explained by the Architect. The "One" is supposed to choose a
handful of people from the Matrix (30 or so if I remember correctly) to
re-populate Zion after the Sentinels get through hacking to death every
living man, woman and child in Zion. This had happened five other times.

23 -- 7 male and 16 female

Post by Matty-o
Which gets me to thinking......
In the first Matrix, Morpheus talked to Neo about the previous "One" (the
man who could remake the Matrix as he saw fit-The man who "...freed the
first of us."). This got me to thinking......If Neo had done his "job",
everyone in Zion would've been killed, and Neo would've chosen ~30 people
from the Matrix to re-populate Zion, all of whom think they are the "first
to be freed". Where the hell do they think Zion came from?

Morpheus and the people of Zion don't know their city has been destroyed and
rebuilt several times. They believe their version of the city is the first
and only version. Therefore, when they guess that it's the year 2199, it's
probably actually hundreds of years later. And, of course, they don't really
have any way of knowing... unless the machines have kept track (and I'm sure
they could figure it out if they haven't).

Post by Matty-o
First of all, there is a huge underground city built for them, complete
with machinery, ships, and weapons, built by nobody (since they were the
first to be freed). Second, there must be enormous amounts of evidence

Councillor Hamann acknowledges this near the beginning of Reloaded when he
and Neo take their walk down to the mechanical level. All those machines,
and no one knows how they work, they just do. It seems to me that some of
them might actually know or have a good idea about the truth, but it's their
jobs to keep that truth secret... because, obviously, if the truth got out,
chaos would erupt, and they'd all kill each other over it.

Post by Matty-o
Additionally, after the machines dispatch all the humans within Zion, what
happens to all the bodies and the damage to the dock and city?
Presumably, the machines roll in and remove bodies, while other machines
move in and repair damage in order to prepare the city for the next
"reload". It seems like a little too much trouble to go through.

As the Architect says, they "have become exceedingly good at it". If they've
mastered the technology of the human brain, then surely they can manipulate
earth and stone to fool the human mind into thinking it hasn't been touched
before.

Maybe...

[Sandman]

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's to
kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is speaking to
the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these scenes have
played themselves out over and over again in the past.

You seem to imply that the scenes on the architects monitors are of Neos
predecessors? I think that's very unlikely. It's more likely that they are
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's to
kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is speaking to
the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these scenes have
played themselves out over and over again in the past.

You seem to imply that the scenes on the architects monitors are of Neos
predecessors? I think that's very unlikely. It's more likely that they are
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

Agreed. The best example of this is probably when all the screen's say
something ("Bullshit!") in unison, and the Architect quickly replies,
"Denial is the most predictable of human responses" (or something like
that). It's not proof, but it's strong evidence that the screens simply
represent Neo's thoughts, or at least the Architect's expectations of his
thoughts.

[Gavin Smith]

Post by Sandman

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's to
kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is speaking to
the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these scenes have
played themselves out over and over again in the past.

You seem to imply that the scenes on the architects monitors are of Neos
predecessors? I think that's very unlikely. It's more likely that they are
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

Another possibility is that they are potential/likely responses
programmed into the monitors 'on-the-fly' by the Architect.

Maybe.

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman
You seem to imply that the scenes on the architects monitors are of Neos
predecessors? I think that's very unlikely. It's more likely that they are
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

Another possibility is that they are potential/likely responses programmed
into the monitors 'on-the-fly' by the Architect.
Maybe.

Likely responses. Finely tuned algorithms with an obscenely low margin of
error, like a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of a percent. So, even if
only one of the potential responses is close to the likely one, the system
has the power to predict all of them and prepare an appropriate reaction to
it.

Maybe.

Maybe this is why the Matrix has been so successful so far; the machines are
ready for (literally) nearly anything.

[Claudio Daffra]

Post by Sandman
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

actions are genereted first in inconscious, than in a few second
then conscious mind can mean what real it has though

in this time, u're link to the machine/matrix so the program
can interpreting subconscious signal and rendering on a video
in real time,

it knows the actions 'the one' do 'cause mathematicaly has just
calculated
the sequences of rendering of a scene

sorry fo my scolhastic english

claudio

[JPM III]

Post by Claudio Daffra

Post by Sandman
events from Neos actions up until and including that moment, including also his
thoughts (like "Fuck you", "You can't control me!").

actions are genereted first in inconscious, than in a few second
then conscious mind can mean what real it has though
in this time, u're link to the machine/matrix so the program
can interpreting subconscious signal and rendering on a video
in real time,
it knows the actions 'the one' do 'cause mathematicaly has just
calculated
the sequences of rendering of a scene
sorry fo my scolhastic english

The reason why I think they're just predicted responses instead of actual
responses is because, as Neo and the Architect agree, "the problem is
choice". Almost all of the Architect's predictions will be accurate, but not
all of them, not all of the time. Because if the system was perfect, Neo
wouldn't exist, or at least not as a systemic anomaly -- the anomaly
wouldn't exist.

All the math in the world can't predict every possible human reaction; it
can only predict what's probable and prepare reactions for it. But out of
the billions of minds connected to the Matrix, there must occasionally be
some weird reactions that the Matrix doesn't predict... and maybe that's
what the anomaly represents.

Maybe.

[Fausto Cinco]

Post by Paul
I have a question after watching the Matrix Reloaded for the umpteenth time.
When Neo is in the Merovingian's house when they help the keymaker escape,
Neo is able to stop all of the bullets with his mind. At that point the
Merovingian tells him he has some skill and then he tells his bodyguard's to
kill Neo. Now, fast forward to the end of the movie when Neo is speaking to
the "Architect" of the Matrix. We find out that all of these scenes have
played themselves out over and over again in the past. That is why the
Merovingian said in his house " your predecessors had much more respect".
He also says after Neo defeats all of his bodyguards "Mark my words, boy,
and mark them well. I have survived your predecessors, and I will survive
you!"
1st, if this has taken place over and over again in the past, how is it
possible that anyone including Neo is alive? Lets take for instance the 1st
time this whole "dreamworld" or "matrix" took place. Neo would have been
working at the computer company, he would have been contacted by Trinity and
Morpheus etc and all of this stuff would have taken place yet in the end Neo
obviously dies. When you die in the Matrix, you die in the "real world".
His body would have been flushed from the pod that held him "in the real
world" and his body would have been decomposed in the liquid and that would
have been the end of Neo. The machine world is the "real world" and not the
Matrix so how could the machines "recreate" Neo and everyone else? I
thought that could only happen inside "the matrix"?
So, how is it that Neo and everyone else is able to be killed time after
time after time and be "reborn" in the real world in a pod and then rescued
by Morpheus etc? Is anyone following what I am saying or getting at? I
know it can be confusing but if you are in this newsgroup you obviously have
some understanding of how the Matrix works and the difference between the
Matrix and the real World.

Paul, Ihave two news for you, a good one, and a bad one, the good one
is that I have Wrotte a Book that explains line by linne of the script,
everything about the Hidden content in the Matrix, all the Script is
described in this book.

The bad one is that my book is written in spanish, i'm trying to
translate it but i'm too slow, i'm looking for someone who helps me on
it, sorry about my english, this is not my native language.

How ever, I have started it's translation, I'll Give you the prologue,
well, the first part by mail together with this message, we are making
it a promotion and looking for someone who helps to publish the book,
now I´ll answere your question about the Matrix Reloaded

That happens because everithing is simbolic, they went to the
underworld to see the Merovingian, who is Satan, You can see it because
the elevator goes down, that's why when they go to see the Oracle they
take the elevator up (The Oracle is the Conscience of Neo, is the one
who tells him what to do, obvioussly, the right thing) And when they go
down to free the internal Lucifer (lucifer means "that who carries the
light) an internal element that originally is an angel in the human
beeing, so we've transformed it into a demon, and here is represented
with the Keymaker, because the lucifer is an internal energy who has
the power to free us, he is got the keys, so we go back to the
merovingian.

He says that he survived the others because he represents the evil in
earth, the promotion of placer and the ambicion of power, "the others"
were the other "ones" who has lived in the races before this race in
earth, the Atlantis civilization (the fourth in this planet)had his own
"one" who freed those that where the Chosen it's name was "manu
baibasvhata" and we know him as "noeh" the atlantis continent perished
in a tragical meteorological disaster, when their "apocalipsis" came to
them, all in the matrix are representations of internal elements of the
human being, as a sample I can tell you that in the third movie they go
to the elevator again, down, the button apparently reads "help" but if
you look again it reads "hell" i can tell you too that the "Mobil"
Station is an anagram, it should read "Limbo", the man of the train is
the death, that is why even Neo can't defeat him, and the train reads
in the front "loop" that represents the circle of lifes of the human
being that comes after death in another body to learn in a life of
suffering and see if he can finally reach his freedom, the father, to
him self, in a total of 108 lifes, if a man doesn't reach him self in
that number, than that human soul must go to hell.

I must tell you that this is a Hidden Knowledge that for very impotant
reazons is being unveiled, keep in touch.

The agent Smith is the must important caracter in the movie, but is too
large to talk about it in this lines, however, I wish you can read it
or find someone who read it to you or translate it, if it's possible,
you can help me on it's promotion, I would really apreciate that.

Fausto Cinco

Post by Paul
Any observations or thoughts would be appreciated.
Paul

[Claudio Daffra]

can u post URL about your book in spanish ?
i'm interesting what u have written

regards

claudio