Idea for _Matrix 4_

[Sean]

Ranger07's recent Matrix 4 question brings a new thing in mind. If
there is going to be another Matrix movie or movie series, what would
it be all about? Any ideas?

Here's one: those who want out are freed, but the peace is uneasy.
(Implied at the conclusion to _Revolutions_).

After some negotiations, an agreement is reached between the free
human community and the Machine.

Free People (ie, Human Agents) are allowed to jack in to the Matrix,
to wander about and contact the Pod People, but with certain ground
rules fixed by the Treaty.

Basically, if a Pod Person wants to stay in the Matrix, the
Human Agents must respect that preference, and in fact they must
respect the person's right to not even know they're in the Matrix.

So how do malcontented Pod People leave? By expressing dissatisfaction
with their world, and actively seeking a way out.

The Human Agents are allowed to found a number of organizations
with a mystique of secret, esoteric knowledge such as the Masons,
the Rosecrucians, the Knights Templar, Transcendental Meditation,
the Loyal Order of Musk Oxen, the United Daughters of the Confederacy,
Technocracy, etc. They come in different styles to attract people
of differing temperaments, but their purpose is always the same
(offering an exit route from the Matrix).

People who are drawn to these societies join at the beginner
level and are taught "Reality" in incremental stages. Those
who really don't want to leave (or even discover) the Matrix
soon become uncomfortable or bored with the esoteric knowledge
they're being offered, and quit.

I think the Trilogy didn't even come close to exploring the
potential for interesting stories possible in the Matrix context.

Sean

[Ingot]

"Sean" <***@no.spam> wrote
<snip>

Post by Sean
I think the Trilogy didn't even come close to exploring the
potential for interesting stories possible in the Matrix context.
Sean

I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with the last
movie...

This is just a personal opinion of course!

One of the things I've always hated is Science Fiction shows that use
technobabble instead of internally consistent science to explain whatever
plot devices they want. As much as I used to love the Star Trek franchise,
their last few years were TERRIBLE with this. "Unexplained technobabble
problem!", run, scamper, argue, angst, "Unexplained technobabble solution!",
episode ends.

Pheh.

Given that, I felt that the last Matrix indulged in it a bit... and even a
little of this puts me off...

That whole "Neo trashes squidgies in the Real World" thing caused a lot of
fun speculation between Reloaded and Revolutions, and the only thing they
said about it was something like, "The power of the One extends beyond the
Matrix".

MANY explanations were possible... Someone was either too lazy to come up
with one, or didn't want to be held to it in future plots. Some of the
explanations were elaborate (The REAL world was just another different
Matrix for people that discovered the existence of the first one), to simple
(The ONE was the result of generations of humans that naturally bred toward
a greater affinity with the Matrix system. As a result, The One could jack
into the Matrix without hardware, as long as he was near a data feed. His
first fumbled success here resulted in him appearing in a communications
node between systems, which is why he was stuck in the subway)

If they had just spent a FEW sentences explaining this stuff, I'd have
enjoyed the sequels much more...

And they would have had starting points and rules for more movies...

Ingot

[JPM III]

Post by Ingot
<snip>

Post by Sean
I think the Trilogy didn't even come close to exploring the
potential for interesting stories possible in the Matrix context.
Sean

I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with
the last movie...

I disagree. I think the fans dropped the ball by wanting or expecting
something different. But with a movie so refreshingly different as the
Matrix, what did they want out of Reloaded and Revolutions -- your typical
Hollywood resolution? I *love* the way Reloaded and Revolutions went. I only
wish I could see more of them. Deleted scenes, more involvement from some of
the minor characters that didn't have enough time on screen...

Post by Ingot
This is just a personal opinion of course!
One of the things I've always hated is Science Fiction shows that use
technobabble instead of internally consistent science to explain
whatever plot devices they want. As much as I used to love the Star
Trek franchise, their last few years were TERRIBLE with this.
"Unexplained technobabble problem!", run, scamper, argue, angst,
"Unexplained technobabble solution!", episode ends.
Pheh.
Given that, I felt that the last Matrix indulged in it a bit... and
even a little of this puts me off...
That whole "Neo trashes squidgies in the Real World" thing caused a
lot of fun speculation between Reloaded and Revolutions, and the only
thing they said about it was something like, "The power of the One
extends beyond the Matrix".
MANY explanations were possible... Someone was either too lazy to
come up with one, or didn't want to be held to it in future plots.
Some of the explanations were elaborate (The REAL world was just
another different Matrix for people that discovered the existence of
the first one), to simple (The ONE was the result of generations of
humans that naturally bred toward a greater affinity with the Matrix
system. As a result, The One could jack into the Matrix without
hardware, as long as he was near a data feed. His first fumbled
success here resulted in him appearing in a communications node
between systems, which is why he was stuck in the subway)
If they had just spent a FEW sentences explaining this stuff, I'd have
enjoyed the sequels much more...

No, wrong, bad! Look at what happened when George Lucas tried to explain The
Force with "midichlorians" -- all hell broke loose! There is much more and
greater potential for more movies without an explanation for how the
anomaly's power through the Source exists. Future authors or scriptwriters
can take great liberties and morph what you call "unexplained technobabble"
powers into whatever they want it to be while remaining as consistent as
they want with the originals.

The producers reiterated time and time again that the real world was *not*
another Matrix -- that is, there certainly was not a Matrix within a Matrix.
The earth we saw in the "real world" was the real earth, several hundred or
thousand years in the future.

As for jacking into the Matrix without a wired connection, I think anyone
could if the Matrix wanted them. Any time they're at "broadcast depth", the
signal is reaching them, and the ports in the backs of their heads are
designed to receive that signal. I think *The Matrix* chooses who the
anomaly is (or else it just knows), and it brings him into it whenever the
anomaly is ready.

I say there are one of two explanations:

1.
It's a cycle... And even some of the main programs (Architect, Oracle,
Agents) don't realize it (due to partial memory wipes, maybe?). I think it's
only a matter of time before war resumes, most of Zion is wiped out, and the
cycle continues almost precisely as the Architect explained it. Morpheus was
wrong about the timeline -- due to the previous versions of the Matrix
(which he was unaware of when he guessed that it was about 2199) mean it's
probably closer to 500-1000 years later.

2.
It's a lie... There is no cycle, there were no previous anomalies, and the
timeline Morpheus guessed is close to correct. The machines don't really
know anything about any previous anomalies and are merely programmed to tell
the humans what they tell them to generate the response they want.



Pick one, or pick your favorite elements of both, or pick something
unique...

[Xeptionl]

Post by JPM III
As for jacking into the Matrix without a wired connection, I think anyone
could if the Matrix wanted them. Any time they're at "broadcast depth", the
signal is reaching them, and the ports in the backs of their heads are
designed to receive that signal. I think *The Matrix* chooses who the
anomaly is (or else it just knows), and it brings him into it whenever the
anomaly is ready.

Was it indicated anywhere that ports can take such signals? Another
thing... Neo destroyed sentinels himself for the first time AFTER
meeting the Architect, so The One's such capabilities were not part of
the iterative plan (However Oracle saying "The power of the One extends
beyond this world" don't go with it). And immediately after that Neo
goes into comma-like situation, now what I don't understand is how
Neo's capability of destorying real-world physical things like
sentinels is related to the capability of connecting to the Matrix
without getting jacked in? I mean, to destroy those sentinels he does
not need to be connected to the Matrix, does he? Also, he got into
comma after all that happened, so The One's ability to connect to the
Matrix without getting jacked in also doesn't seem to be planned. And
so idea that The Matrix chooses (or recognizes) the anomaly and lets
him connect does not go down the throat easily.

Let's make it clearer...
Neo seems to have two special/unexpected powers :
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

I don't understand two things :
- How these two powers are related
- Are these powers gifted to him by the machines or Neo himself is a
special human who already owned these powers when he was "grown" inside
the power plant? If answer is machines, the question is 'why'.

Look at the following dialog :
Oracle: The power of the One extends beyond this world. It reaches from
here all the way back to where it came from.
Neo: Where?
Oracle: The Source. That's what you felt when you touched those
Sentinels. But you weren't ...

Oracle's statements clearly indicate that these powers are planted by
machines ("The Source" is it, or is it different?). But why do they do
it?

Lastly, how is the idea that Neo has got these powers from his birth
since he is born to free the humans, as a massiah?

Post by JPM III
...
2.
It's a lie... There is no cycle, there were no previous anomalies, and the
timeline Morpheus guessed is close to correct. The machines don't really
know anything about any previous anomalies and are merely programmed to tell
the humans what they tell them to generate the response they want.

Most probably this is not the case.

[Sandman]

Post by Xeptionl
Was it indicated anywhere that ports can take such signals? Another
thing... Neo destroyed sentinels himself for the first time AFTER
meeting the Architect, so The One's such capabilities were not part of
the iterative plan (However Oracle saying "The power of the One extends
beyond this world" don't go with it). And immediately after that Neo
goes into comma-like situation, now what I don't understand is how
Neo's capability of destorying real-world physical things like
sentinels is related to the capability of connecting to the Matrix
without getting jacked in? I mean, to destroy those sentinels he does
not need to be connected to the Matrix, does he? Also, he got into
comma after all that happened, so The One's ability to connect to the
Matrix without getting jacked in also doesn't seem to be planned. And
so idea that The Matrix chooses (or recognizes) the anomaly and lets
him connect does not go down the throat easily.
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

Post by Xeptionl
- How these two powers are related

Unless you want to claim that he destroyed the sentinels by being connected to
the matrix, there is no connection. And if you say that, you are the one making
the connection. It has always been assumed that the "I can feel them" was meant
to indicate that he could feel them as he could "feel" things when inside the
Matrix, but in Revolutions it is clearly stated that what he did to those
sentinel was outside this (the Matrix) world.

Post by Xeptionl
- Are these powers gifted to him by the machines or Neo himself is a
special human who already owned these powers when he was "grown" inside
the power plant? If answer is machines, the question is 'why'.

These are obviously powers that are of a supernatural kind, and not related to
him being able to "hack" the Matrix.

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
Was it indicated anywhere that ports can take such signals? Another
thing... Neo destroyed sentinels himself for the first time AFTER
meeting the Architect, so The One's such capabilities were not part
of the iterative plan (However Oracle saying "The power of the One
extends beyond this world" don't go with it). And immediately after
that Neo goes into comma-like situation, now what I don't
understand is how Neo's capability of destorying real-world
physical things like sentinels is related to the capability of
connecting to the Matrix without getting jacked in? I mean, to
destroy those sentinels he does not need to be connected to the
Matrix, does he? Also, he got into comma after all that happened,
so The One's ability to connect to the Matrix without getting
jacked in also doesn't seem to be planned. And so idea that The
Matrix chooses (or recognizes) the anomaly and lets him connect
does not go down the throat easily.
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

*BALOOOOOOOGA* Sarcasm alarm going off!

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

It does seem like the Matrix connects to him, doesn't it? Hmm...

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- How these two powers are related

Unless you want to claim that he destroyed the sentinels by being
connected to the matrix, there is no connection. And if you say that,
you are the one making the connection. It has always been assumed
that the "I can feel them" was meant to indicate that he could feel
them as he could "feel" things when inside the Matrix, but in
Revolutions it is clearly stated that what he did to those sentinel
was outside this (the Matrix) world.

Well, maybe not exactly the same way. I've recently wondered if it's just
the similar frequencies of the machine code running through the Matrix and
the sentinels outside the Matrix.

I'm making the connection to when Neo visited the Architect and "touched the
Source", after which Link said that he could see Neo via the ship's Matrix
screens, but he didn't recognize him. So it seems to me that something was
transmitted to or through Neo during his visit to the Architect that
completed the process of him becoming "The One", and after that he had the
ability to feel the machine city's sentinels as well.

But how or why? That's a fantastical phenomenon yet to be explained...

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Are these powers gifted to him by the machines or Neo himself is a
special human who already owned these powers when he was "grown"
inside the power plant? If answer is machines, the question is
'why'.

These are obviously powers that are of a supernatural kind, and not
related to him being able to "hack" the Matrix.

Well, they may be related in the sense that they affect the reason why he
can hack the Matrix at the level he does. But as for what you're saying, I
agree somewhat. It seems to me that his being "The One" had a lot to do with
the Matrix choosing him... or someone choosing him... specifically at the
end of Reloaded when he stopped the sentinels and found himself inside a
Matrix-like prison construct.

[Sandman]

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

*BALOOOOOOOGA* Sarcasm alarm going off!

Being constantly stuck at twelve years must feel frustrating.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

It does seem like the Matrix connects to him, doesn't it?

Eh? Of course it doesn't It's a totally unprecedented scenario. The Matrix
can't connect to anyone by itself as far as we know.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman
Unless you want to claim that he destroyed the sentinels by being
connected to the matrix, there is no connection. And if you say that,
you are the one making the connection. It has always been assumed
that the "I can feel them" was meant to indicate that he could feel
them as he could "feel" things when inside the Matrix, but in
Revolutions it is clearly stated that what he did to those sentinel
was outside this (the Matrix) world.

Well, maybe not exactly the same way. I've recently wondered if it's just
the similar frequencies of the machine code running through the Matrix and
the sentinels outside the Matrix.

Eh? Yes, and he was the time program.

Post by JPM III
I'm making the connection to when Neo visited the Architect and "touched the
Source", after which Link said that he could see Neo via the ship's Matrix
screens, but he didn't recognize him. So it seems to me that something was
transmitted to or through Neo during his visit to the Architect that
completed the process of him becoming "The One", and after that he had the
ability to feel the machine city's sentinels as well.

Pure speculations aside - it isn't nexplained in a satisfactory way.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Are these powers gifted to him by the machines or Neo himself is a
special human who already owned these powers when he was "grown"
inside the power plant? If answer is machines, the question is
'why'.

These are obviously powers that are of a supernatural kind, and not
related to him being able to "hack" the Matrix.

Well, they may be related in the sense that they affect the reason why he
can hack the Matrix at the level he does. But as for what you're saying, I
agree somewhat. It seems to me that his being "The One" had a lot to do with
the Matrix choosing him... or someone choosing him... specifically at the
end of Reloaded when he stopped the sentinels and found himself inside a
Matrix-like prison construct.

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

*BALOOOOOOOGA* Sarcasm alarm going off!

Being constantly stuck at twelve years must feel frustrating.

Wow, that's random. Who's twelve?

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

It does seem like the Matrix connects to him, doesn't it?

Eh? Of course it doesn't It's a totally unprecedented scenario. The
Matrix can't connect to anyone by itself as far as we know.

You have no imagination whatsoever. I'm done now.

[Sandman]

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

*BALOOOOOOOGA* Sarcasm alarm going off!

Being constantly stuck at twelve years must feel frustrating.

Wow, that's random. Who's twelve?

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

It does seem like the Matrix connects to him, doesn't it?

Eh? Of course it doesn't It's a totally unprecedented scenario. The
Matrix can't connect to anyone by itself as far as we know.

You have no imagination whatsoever. I'm done now.

Paul got lost in his puberty again.

[Gavin Smith]

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
Let's make it clearer...
- Destroying physical things like sentinels without touching them

Yes, since we see this on screen.

*BALOOOOOOOGA* Sarcasm alarm going off!

Being constantly stuck at twelve years must feel frustrating.

Wow, that's random. Who's twelve?

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by Xeptionl
- Connecting to the Matrix without being jacked in

When does he connect to the matrix without being jacked in?

It does seem like the Matrix connects to him, doesn't it?

Eh? Of course it doesn't It's a totally unprecedented scenario. The
Matrix can't connect to anyone by itself as far as we know.

You have no imagination whatsoever. I'm done now.

Paul got lost in his puberty again.

Is this a private I Want The Last Word Contest, or can anyone join in?

:)

[Sandman]

Post by Gavin Smith

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III
You have no imagination whatsoever. I'm done now.

Paul got lost in his puberty again.

Is this a private I Want The Last Word Contest, or can anyone join in?

You're welcome to join. :)

[JohnD]

Post by Sandman

Post by Gavin Smith

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III
You have no imagination whatsoever. I'm done now.

Paul got lost in his puberty again.

Is this a private I Want The Last Word Contest, or can anyone join in?

You're welcome to join. :)
--
Sandman[.net]

& me?

[Profil1]

I missed those JPM vs Sandman conversations..lol

[Sandman]

Post by Profil1
I missed those JPM vs Sandman conversations.

JPM couldn't sustain a "conversation" if his life depended on it. He is nothing
but insults and trollings these days. It's a shame, he was quite promising when
he came to the group.

Ah well, puberty is hell - as I recall it. :)

[JPM III]

Post by Profil1
I missed those JPM vs Sandman conversations..lol

Well they won't be coming back. I made the mistake of trying to take him
seriously in the past, and he never took me seriously -- he only ridiculed
and insulted for no good reason and ignored any actual arguments I had to
make. Even now, after months without a single word in his direction, his
words are insulting and ridiculous. He makes juvenile accusations with no
provocation whatsoever.

I allowed my program's ignoring him to expire, but based on his last couple
of posts that was clearly a mistake, so he's gone again. If he has anything
to say to this, I predict it will be equally as insulting and pointless as
his prior posts, but the difference is I won't see them. (And if I do see
posts from him despite this, I'll just delete them.) He isn't interested in
real conversation with me, so I'm finished trying.

[Sandman]

Post by JPM III

Post by Profil1
I missed those JPM vs Sandman conversations..lol

Well they won't be coming back. I made the mistake of trying to take him
seriously in the past, and he never took me seriously -- he only ridiculed
and insulted for no good reason and ignored any actual arguments I had to
make. Even now, after months without a single word in his direction, his
words are insulting and ridiculous. He makes juvenile accusations with no
provocation whatsoever.

Irony at a professional level. I hadn't posted here for a while, and my first
post, which was directed at *someone else* was instantly replied to by Paul
laced with puberty insults. :-D

The sad thing is that I actually think Paul believes in what he writes.

[Sandman]

Post by JPM III

Post by Ingot
I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with
the last movie...

I disagree. I think the fans dropped the ball by wanting or expecting
something different.

Basically, the movie makers did right and the movie watchers did wrong? :)

<snip>

Post by JPM III

Post by Ingot
If they had just spent a FEW sentences explaining this stuff, I'd
have enjoyed the sequels much more...

No, wrong, bad! Look at what happened when George Lucas tried to
explain The Force with "midichlorians" -- all hell broke loose!

Again, basically - Explaining things is a bad idea? Let's create cliff hangers
that we don't follow up on? :)

Post by JPM III
There is much more and greater potential for more movies without an
explanation for how the anomaly's power through the Source exists.
Future authors or scriptwriters can take great liberties and morph
what you call "unexplained technobabble" powers into whatever they
want it to be while remaining as consistent as they want with the
originals.

But fans doesn't want that kind of leeway from the original. If a prospering
third party source of material would be compelling, a basic set of ground rules
need to be established from the source.

Timothy Zahn is one of greatest writers of Star Wars Expanded Universe. EU is a
"what if?" branch of Star Wars material, in which all SW novels live. They are
all "ok'd" by Lucasart, but not sanctioned by them. George can choose to
disregard anything from it as it is specifically considered not to be canon. SW
novel writers have a basic set of rules of which I am not aware of all, but I
know that they are not allowed to alter or kill a main character (i.e. Solo
losses an arm or Leia gets killed in a book) All SW writers are encouraged to
keep up timeline and continuity *within the EU*.

Timothy Zahn was the first published SW novelist and wrote the Thrawn trilogy,
in which he introduces a created called "Ysalamari", which has peculiar feature
of creating a force-repellant field around itself at all times. So, basically
if you have one of these on your shoulder and meet a Jedi, he can do squat. He
looses his "connection" to the force.

That's pretty stupid and doesn't really follow anything we've learned about the
force in the original trilogy.

Post by JPM III
As for jacking into the Matrix without a wired connection, I think
anyone could if the Matrix wanted them. Any time they're at "broadcast
depth", the signal is reaching them, and the ports in the backs of
their heads are designed to receive that signal. I think *The Matrix*
chooses who the anomaly is (or else it just knows), and it brings him
into it whenever the anomaly is ready.

So the physical port in the back of ones head is also a WiFi antenna?

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Ingot
I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with
the last movie...

I disagree. I think the fans dropped the ball by wanting or
expecting something different.

Basically, the movie makers did right and the movie watchers did wrong? :)

The movie makers definitely did right -- it was their creation, not ours.
Movie watchers have no authoritative say in what the movie makers do. That
said, the movie watchers did nothing wrong either. Criticizing movies is
what movie watchers do. That said, I have no sympathy for anyone who
seriously claims a movie should have been something else -- because it
shouldn't have been. It should be whatever the makers can make.

After all, they're the artists and we're the audience, not the other way
around.

Post by Sandman
<snip>

Post by JPM III

Post by Ingot
If they had just spent a FEW sentences explaining this stuff, I'd
have enjoyed the sequels much more...

No, wrong, bad! Look at what happened when George Lucas tried to
explain The Force with "midichlorians" -- all hell broke loose!

Again, basically - Explaining things is a bad idea? Let's create
cliff hangers that we don't follow up on? :)

Sure, if that's what they want to do. I quite enjoy them. It gives me
something to think about. Or are you glad that Lucas attempted to explain
the Force in Episode I?

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III
There is much more and greater potential for more movies without an
explanation for how the anomaly's power through the Source exists.
Future authors or scriptwriters can take great liberties and morph
what you call "unexplained technobabble" powers into whatever they
want it to be while remaining as consistent as they want with the
originals.

But fans doesn't want that kind of leeway from the original. If a
prospering third party source of material would be compelling, a
basic set of ground rules need to be established from the source.
Timothy Zahn is one of greatest writers of Star Wars Expanded
Universe. EU is a "what if?" branch of Star Wars material, in which
all SW novels live. They are all "ok'd" by Lucasart, but not
sanctioned by them. George can choose to disregard anything from it
as it is specifically considered not to be canon. SW novel writers
have a basic set of rules of which I am not aware of all, but I know
that they are not allowed to alter or kill a main character (i.e.
Solo losses an arm or Leia gets killed in a book) All SW writers are
encouraged to keep up timeline and continuity *within the EU*.
Timothy Zahn was the first published SW novelist and wrote the Thrawn
trilogy, in which he introduces a created called "Ysalamari", which
has peculiar feature of creating a force-repellant field around
itself at all times. So, basically if you have one of these on your
shoulder and meet a Jedi, he can do squat. He looses his "connection"
to the force.
That's pretty stupid and doesn't really follow anything we've learned
about the force in the original trilogy.

So you're saying Zahn is simultaneously one of the best EU writers and also
creator of one of the stupidest EU creations? I mean, it makes sense. Great
writing requires bold ideas, and often bad ideas are just bold ideas that
don't quite mesh with the intended audience.

As for EU, I only read the novels that are immediately relevant to the films
(so far), and nothing that's part of a longer series of novels. Cloak of
Deception, Shadow Hunter, Rogue Planet (Greg Bear), The Approaching Storm...
and next on my list is Labyrinth of Evil. I like them because they mostly
involve events that better explain the plots of the movies. But I don't like
reading the series (Clone Wars novels, Thrawn trilogies, etc.) because
that's just too much reading about too much fictional stuff. :-P For me,
anyway.

I also have and have not yet read Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Shadows of the
Empire, and The Truce at Bakura. Any of those you would specifically
recommend or not recommend?

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III
As for jacking into the Matrix without a wired connection, I think
anyone could if the Matrix wanted them. Any time they're at
"broadcast depth", the signal is reaching them, and the ports in
the backs of their heads are designed to receive that signal. I
think *The Matrix* chooses who the anomaly is (or else it just
knows), and it brings him into it whenever the anomaly is ready.

So the physical port in the back of ones head is also a WiFi antenna?

I'm just saying it could be. Neo was connected without dying somehow, so I
wonder...

[Sandman]

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III

Post by Ingot
I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with
the last movie...

I disagree. I think the fans dropped the ball by wanting or
expecting something different.

Basically, the movie makers did right and the movie watchers did wrong? :)

The movie makers definitely did right -- it was their creation, not
ours. Movie watchers have no authoritative say in what the movie
makers do. That said, the movie watchers did nothing wrong either.
Criticizing movies is what movie watchers do. That said, I have no
sympathy for anyone who seriously claims a movie should have been
something else -- because it shouldn't have been. It should be
whatever the makers can make.
After all, they're the artists and we're the audience, not the other
way around.

Their goal with making a public movie is to make money (and tell a story). As
such, their level of success is directly linked to the audience acceptance of
their work. What thee audience think about a piece of art is EVERYTHING to an
artist. Not that I really would call the W Bros artists or anything.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman

Post by JPM III
No, wrong, bad! Look at what happened when George Lucas tried to
explain The Force with "midichlorians" -- all hell broke loose!

Again, basically - Explaining things is a bad idea? Let's create
cliff hangers that we don't follow up on? :)

Sure, if that's what they want to do. I quite enjoy them. It gives me
something to think about. Or are you glad that Lucas attempted to
explain the Force in Episode I?

I am glad that Lucas attempted to explain why Vader turned to the dark side in
the prequels, yes.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman
But fans doesn't want that kind of leeway from the original. If a
prospering third party source of material would be compelling, a
basic set of ground rules need to be established from the source.
Timothy Zahn is one of greatest writers of Star Wars Expanded
Universe. EU is a "what if?" branch of Star Wars material, in which
all SW novels live. They are all "ok'd" by Lucasart, but not
sanctioned by them. George can choose to disregard anything from it
as it is specifically considered not to be canon. SW novel writers
have a basic set of rules of which I am not aware of all, but I know
that they are not allowed to alter or kill a main character (i.e.
Solo losses an arm or Leia gets killed in a book) All SW writers are
encouraged to keep up timeline and continuity *within the EU*.
Timothy Zahn was the first published SW novelist and wrote the Thrawn
trilogy, in which he introduces a created called "Ysalamari", which
has peculiar feature of creating a force-repellant field around
itself at all times. So, basically if you have one of these on your
shoulder and meet a Jedi, he can do squat. He looses his "connection"
to the force.
That's pretty stupid and doesn't really follow anything we've learned
about the force in the original trilogy.

So you're saying Zahn is simultaneously one of the best EU writers and
also creator of one of the stupidest EU creations?

Obviously.

Post by JPM III
I mean, it makes sense. Great writing requires bold ideas, and often
bad ideas are just bold ideas that don't quite mesh with the intended
audience.

Great writing doesn't require bold ideas. And Ysalamari wasn't a bold idea by
any stretch of the imagination. Timothy wanted the ultimate bad guy in the
Thrawn trilogy NOT be a jedi/sith, so he needed something to shield him form
the Jedi. Thrawn is smart, not powerful.

Post by JPM III
As for EU, I only read the novels that are immediately relevant to the
films (so far), and nothing that's part of a longer series of novels.
Cloak of Deception, Shadow Hunter, Rogue Planet (Greg Bear), The
Approaching Storm... and next on my list is Labyrinth of Evil. I like
them because they mostly involve events that better explain the plots
of the movies. But I don't like reading the series (Clone Wars novels,
Thrawn trilogies, etc.) because that's just too much reading about too
much fictional stuff. :-P For me, anyway.
I also have and have not yet read Splinter of the Mind's Eye, Shadows
of the Empire, and The Truce at Bakura. Any of those you would
specifically recommend or not recommend?

SotE sucks, Splinter you should read. Bakura I haven't read.

Post by JPM III

Post by Sandman
So the physical port in the back of ones head is also a WiFi antenna?

I'm just saying it could be. Neo was connected without dying somehow,
so I wonder...

When was Neo connected to the Matrix without being plugged in?

[Sandman]

Post by Ingot
I agree. Unfortunately, I think they dropped the ball a bit with the
last movie...
This is just a personal opinion of course!
One of the things I've always hated is Science Fiction shows that use
technobabble instead of internally consistent science to explain
whatever plot devices they want. As much as I used to love the Star
Trek franchise, their last few years were TERRIBLE with this.
"Unexplained technobabble problem!", run, scamper, argue, angst,
"Unexplained technobabble solution!", episode ends.
Pheh.
Given that, I felt that the last Matrix indulged in it a bit... and
even a little of this puts me off...
That whole "Neo trashes squidgies in the Real World" thing caused a
lot of fun speculation between Reloaded and Revolutions, and the only
thing they said about it was something like, "The power of the One
extends beyond the Matrix".
MANY explanations were possible... Someone was either too lazy to
come up with one, or didn't want to be held to it in future plots.
Some of the explanations were elaborate (The REAL world was just
another different Matrix for people that discovered the existence of
the first one), to simple The ONE was the result of generations of
humans that naturally bred toward a greater affinity with the Matrix
system. As a result, The One could jack into the Matrix without
hardware, as long as he was near a data feed. His first fumbled
success here resulted in him appearing in a communications node
between systems, which is why he was stuck in the subway
If they had just spent a FEW sentences explaining this stuff, I'd have
enjoyed the sequels much more...

Couldn't agree more if I wanted to.

I for one loathed the entire Matrix-in-matrix ideas, but in the light of what
it turned out to be, I might have preffered it. Or at least something.

Also, I pretty much think the entire role of the architect was left hanging. He
is introduced as quite the pivotal character and then almost completely left
out in Revolutions.

[JPM III]

Post by Sandman
Also, I pretty much think the entire role of the architect was left
hanging. He is introduced as quite the pivotal character and then
almost completely left out in Revolutions.

Merovingian, too. I think I would have enjoyed more screen time to flesh out
each of their roles.